Vidas: Hello and welcome to Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast!

Ausra: This is a show dedicated to helping you become a better organist.

V: We’re your hosts Vidas Pinkevicius...

A: ...and Ausra Motuzaite-Pinkeviciene.

V: We have over 25 years of experience of playing the organ

A: ...and we’ve been teaching thousands of organists online from 89 countries since 2011.

V: So now let’s jump in and get started with the podcast for today.

A: We hope you’ll enjoy it!

V:  Hi guys!  This is Vidas.

A:  And Ausra.

Vidas: Let’s start episode 694 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast. This question was sent by Ed, who is our Total Organist student, and a few days ago, he wrote a nice feedback about our program and a few things that might be improved, so, things like organization of the files, training materials in the Total Organist program, or adding a search box on the blog archives according to month, or categories for blog posts, so we’re working on that.

Ausra:  Oh yes! We are!

Vidas:  Ausra is doing categories since 2014—that’s a lot of work—and I’m presently occupied with organizing material in the Total Organist dashboard. I’ve already done beginner’s material and am working through various other levels, so that people, students, would find it easier to navigate and find what they’re looking for.

Ausra:  Yes, so we very much appreciate your comments and your advice.

Vidas:  And Ed writes, now, a question, and it could be used for our conversation, I think. So he writes:

“You asked me to get back to you about what I’m practicing, and I had to wait a few days to figure out how to explain this. As I mentioned in my prior email I have a masters degree in organ performance from many years ago, and then let it lapse for several decades. Now that I’m retired I’m trying to make the magic happen again, and it’s been challenging to figure out how to put the pieces back together. My technique has really slipped a good bit, most of my repertoire is rusty, and if I’m not careful I can get pretty discouraged.

One thing that has helped me is that I put together the attached spreadsheet. I took several days to go through all the music in the boxes to try to remember what I had learned already. I even found pieces that clearly I had played because my handwriting is all over the paper, yet I could not remember anything about the piece. I put all this information into a spreadsheet to help me understand my priorities and the current state of each of the pieces I was working on. It’s been very helpful to keep my focus to resurrect all of the things I’ve learned already well while still branching into some new material. 

I’m in a good daily routine now. I spend about 30 minutes split between Hanon and the Davis textbook pedal exercises to get my dexterity back, and then I look through this repertoire list and pick some things that I’m interested in moving up on the current status list. I get pretty tired by mid afternoon, so I save the evening for watching YouTube videos from your site.  I also got a copy of the New Oxford Organ Method which I find delightful. One chapter a day seems to be good to remind me of what I used to know.

Keep up the great work. Every hour you put into organization is going to have tremendous benefits and increase the availability and respect for what you’ve done. Thanks so much.

Take care,
Ed”

Vidas:  So let’s take a look a little bit about in that spreadsheet. Okay?

Ausra:  Okay.

Vidas:  You will find interesting, I think, his repertoire selections and how he organizes. I found it interesting in the morning, so I will show you. Here is this list. Basically, we can see a lot of Bach’s works, 

Ausra:  Oh yes,

Vidas:  ...a few Pachelbel’s, Walcha’s, a few of Vierne’s works, a few Chorales by Brahms. Right? Most of these are Chorale-based works by Bach and Preludes and Fugues from the “Eight Short Preludes and Fugues” collection. Right? And he writes next to the title, “Composer,” that’s one column,  “Designator,” meaning Bach’s catalog number or Opus number for Brahms, then the source, and he lists as the source… I think the source is various books he uses so he can find it, and then priority from 1 to 5, and status from 1 to 5, and date from he practiced, and the last column he wrote examples that he found in YouTube videos by other people.

Ausra:  Nice! Very well organized.

Vidas:  It’s well organized!

Ausra:  I could probably never do things like that.

Vidas:  We could look at the rating in one of the columns. From 1 to 5, number 1 means ready to perform, random minimal errors. Number 2, minor consistent errors. Need work, but could be ready in one week. Number 3, multiple sections need practice but could be ready in several weeks. Number 4, major practice needed, could be ready in one month. Number 5, challenging. Needs major work on all sections.

Ausra: Okay.

Vidas:  Alright? So if we could take a look at the pieces again, this is status. Right? Status for example  number 2 “Liebster Jesu, Wir Sind Hier.” BWV 731. It’s status 2 and it means “with minor consistent errors, need work but could be ready in one week. Make sense?

Ausra:  Yeah, sure.

Vidas: Or let’s say number 3. “Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ, BWV 639,” it’s rating is number 3, so multiple sections need practice but could be ready in several weeks, and so on. Right? For example, number 5 is a few pieces by Brahms, “Herzlich tut mich verlangen” or “Traurigkeit,” which means challenging and needs major work in all sections, more than one month.

Ausra:  Nicely organized, although I have one suggestion for Ed. You know?

Vidas:  Okay!

Ausra:  Well, if I were in his shoes, I might look for a new repertoire and not worry so much about pieces pieces that he had learned many decades ago, because sometimes to learn new pieces is easier and more exciting than to go back so long time ago.

Vidas:  I agree in part with you, yeah.

Ausra:  And, you know, there are only a very few composers that he added to this list, so I would truly advise him to expand his repertoire and to look to other composers. There are a lot of Bach on his list, but, for example, I don’t see any of Buxtehude.

Vidas:  No Buxtehude, yeah.

Ausra:  And I think it would be a great choice, because they are technically less challenging, but you know, equally beautiful.

Vidas:  Yeah, that’s right. Then he writes in the next column “sources,” abbreviations of the sources, so I could actually read through his sources list. “Widor-Schweitzer complete set,” “Twelve Easy Chorale Preludes,” “A Treasury of Shorter Organ Classics,” “Franck :Complete Works for Organ,” “Helmut Walcha: Chorale Preludes,” “Twenty-four pièces en style libre,” basically the Vierne collection, “Brahms: Complete Organ Works,” “Pachelbel: Selected Organ Works,” “Eighty Chorale Preludes from German Masters of the 17th and 18th Centuries,” “Flor Peeters: 10 Chorale Preludes,” “Flor Peeters: 10 Chorale Preludes on Gregorian Hymns,” and “Historical Organ Recitals,” Bonnet, probably. Okay, so these are the sources that he had at his disposal many years ago, and probably Ed resurrected that list, these collections, and found them useful. And let’s take a look also at things that might be improved. Like you say, expanded repertoire,

Ausra:  Yes.

Vidas: He could take a look at our training materials on Total Organist. We are focusing now and actually we have a lot of materials now there, and while it’s being still categorized better than in levels of difficulty, not just basic material, intermediate and advanced, or beginner level, but we are organizing it according to historical periods like Baroque, Romantic, Modern, or other categories like technique, practice, for each level of difficulty. Yeah? So that people could easily find… or music theory, harmony, 

Ausra:  Yes, that’s right

Vidas:  ...improvisation, so people will find it easier to navigate, and of course Ed could take advantage of those enormous material lists that we have. Did you notice anything else that could be improved for in his practice, while I was reading, maybe, his letter?

Ausra:  As I mentioned before, I would really add new composers to his list. 

Vidas:  Mhmm

Ausra:  For example, if we are talking about Romantic music, okay, I saw the Brahms, but you know if you are more interested in like German Romantic music, you could always add Liszt, Mendelssohn, to this  list Rheinberger,

Vidas:  Rheinberger, yes, very useful, too. 

Ausra:  Yes, and you know, if he put on his list Vierne, so maybe look at Widor, maybe look at the earlier French masters like César Franck… so… what else?

Vidas:  Merkel Trios, we have fingering for them, too.

Ausra:  Yes. Obviously.

Vidas:  Gustav Merkel. So basically we are doing a lot of materials that we are playing ourselves, and as we are expanding our repertoire, we let you on this journey, too, while making fingering and pedaling available, and of course, we are very grateful for people on our team like Juan and Jeremy who are helping us to transcribe those fingerings and make it into a nice neat collection, edition, edited for you to use, and that’s all available and included in your Total Organist membership. So it’s really, really exciting that Ed has found this site really useful, and it’s been really an eye opening to read his feedback,

Ausra:  Sure!

Vidas: How he values what we do, and how he uses that material. For example, I didn’t realize that people are actually looking for specific blog posts on our site, https://organduo.lt. Right? Through 11 years of work, we have produced thousands, several thousands of blog posts. Right? And the majority of them are still uncategorized, so it would have been difficult to find. But now, since there is this search box on the right-hand column on the top, you could easily insert any keyword that you want, any word, any phrase that you’re looking for, and it will probably find some hits as you press enter.

Ausra:  And I’m planning to finish this work by New Year.

Vidas:  That’s very fast. Maybe take it easy, Ausra! She’s very hard working, but I don’t want her to overextend herself, and still she needs to practice and to relax and do some other things, too, in her day, not only this archival work. 

Ausra:  Well, yes.

Vidas:  Alright, wonderful! We hope this was useful to Ed and maybe to others who are planning to do Total Organist but were maybe hesitant before. So take a look, we are actually improving it, and every day, thinking how can we help better on this organ playing journey.

Ausra:  Yes, and how can we improve it.

Vidas:  Yeah. So, take care, and please send us more of your questions; we love helping you grow. And remember, when you practice,

Ausra: Miracles happen!

​V: This podcast is supported by Total Organist - the most comprehensive organ training program online.

A: It has hundreds of courses, coaching and practice materials for every area of organ playing, thousands of instructional videos and PDF's. You will NOT find more value anywhere else online...

V: Total Organist helps you to master any piece, perfect your technique, develop your sight-reading skills, and improvise or compose your own music and much much more…

A: Sign up and begin your training today at organduo.lt and click on Total Organist. And of course, you will get the 1st month free too. You can cancel anytime.

V: If you need one-on-one coaching, you can check out our page on Buy Me a Coffee platform.
​A: Find out more at https://buymeacoffee.com/organduo

Vidas: Hello and welcome to Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast!

Ausra: This is a show dedicated to helping you become a better organist.

V: We’re your hosts Vidas Pinkevicius...

A: ...and Ausra Motuzaite-Pinkeviciene.

V: We have over 25 years of experience of playing the organ

A: ...and we’ve been teaching thousands of organists online from 89 countries since 2011.

V: So now let’s jump in and get started with the podcast for today.

A: We hope you’ll enjoy it!

V:  Hi guys, this is Vidas.

A:  And Ausra.

V:  Let’s start episode 663 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast.  This question was sent by Daniel, and he writes,

Hello Vidas,
My ultimate dream in regard to organ playing would be to gain the technical facility and coordination necessary to perform the masterworks of the Baroque repertoire (e.g., BWV 582, HWV 432, the entirety of BWV 1080).
Beyond that would be to gain the ability to improvise/think contrapuntally.
The three areas that are impeding these goals would be detailed as:

• Development & understanding of physical technique/coordination.
  • I come from a piano/composition background, and have a well-developed hand technique, but encounter difficulty cultivating the coordination between limbs, while maintaining a balanced position. I have also studied the literature available regarding coordinate technique, such as the writings of Abby Whiteside and the work of Dorothy Taubman/Edna Golandsky, and have been trying to apply these principles to organ technique, which has been a process of  gradual integration. There are other methods of body re-education such as Feldenkrais or Alexander Technique, which may indirectly facilitate techniques that may be worth studying as well.
• Audiation:
  • I am also very interested in the concept of audiation, aural skills, or "mental hearing" and have studied the available literature as well (partimenti, thoroughbass, the pedagogy of Nadia Boulanger). The concept of understanding the music at a deeper level and eventually being able to "think contrapuntally" must certainly translate into greater musical capabilities. I am still experimenting with and researching different methods to cultivate this ability. Sight singing appears to be a great adjunct to this skill. There are those who can purportedly just read the sheet music and hear it in their head without the aid of an external instrument as well.
• Fingering principles/Sight Reading:
  • Prior to beginning organ, I have achieved a level of proficiency on the piano, and the fingering principles do not intuitively apply to the organ repertoire. This in turn hinders my ability to sight read. I am new to the repertoire, but am still trying to discern basic principles for good fingering choices.

I can expound on any of the items listed, if further detail if needed.
Thank you again and best regards,
~Daniel
​
V:  What can I say, Ausra?  Was it detailed enough?

A:  Yes, it’s very detailed.  And from my experience both as a music practitioner and also teaching theory for many years now, I could say that you should not study so many theoretical books and all those methods about fingering, pedaling, composition, and you know all those other things that, technical stuff too, as Daniel mentioned.  It seems for me that he spends many many hours of studying about music.  But if I would be him, I would spend more time actually practicing and spending time with an instrument, because no books will teach you, no methods will teach you how to play.  The best teacher is your own ears and your own fingers.  And you need to spend as much time at the instrument as you can.  Another thing about coordination problem, well I was told by the physical therapist that in general men have more coordination comparing to women.  So...

V:  Why is that?

A:  I don’t know.  He told me that from his experience, from his patients that he had had.

V:  Maybe it’s because women can do multi-tasking better.

A:  I don’t know if it’s related to that, but definitely there is something about that.  But once again, you have to work more on that.  Because often the pianists struggle with coordination when we switch instruments from piano to an organ.

V:  So to go back to your beginning statement, probably I could put it in another way, saying that Daniel is studying about studying, and not doing actual studying more.

A:  Yes, you know, let’s see since I’m working at the theory department, well and I’m a practitioner because I play organ a lot.  Not as much as I wish I would play, but still a lot comparing to my colleagues for example at the same department.  And they know a lot about music, they can hear perfectly, they can easily write polyphonic dictation, let’s say consisting of three parts, but very seldom could any of them sit and play a piece or sight read very well, although they know all this in theory, all the keys and they have most of them perfect pitch and so on and so forth.  But if you don’t practice on regular basis, you will not play an instrument.  Just reading about how to do it right will not teach you to play.  Well and about notion of the right fingering - if we are talking about Baroque repertoire yes, then it’s quite different from what you have learned to play on the piano and what you are playing on the organ.  You need some specific knowledge about it and some additional skills.  But if we are talking about Romantic and Modern, Contemporary Repertoire, then basically the fingering is same, where you don’t need to rediscover and to recreate the bicycle, it already works.

V:  Yes, organ fingering specific to organ probably applies mostly to Early Music, whereas you see on the organ in Romantic Era, they tried to recreate perfect legato without the sustain pedal that piano has, so you have to do everything with your fingers.  You can do perfect legato on the piano with the fingers, but also with the help of the sustain pedal, don’t you think?  And that might be different fingering choice, too.

A:  Well yes, but you know the good pianist will also think about fingering.  Because only using pedal and cheating by that will not substitute a legato, really legato touch.

V:  Mm hm.

A:  And some of the pianists, some bad pianists, they simply overuse the pedal.

V:  Right.  And if we’re talking about organ fingering, early organ fingering let’s say, or early keyboard fingering, you don’t need to aim for legato at all.  You can use position fingering basically.  Change positions and change fingers when you change positions, when you change chords, right?

A:  Sure.

V:  It’s more complicated than that, but the basic principle might be like this.  There are more nuances of course, which you can learn in other trainings that we have.

A:  Yes, but you know what I mean actually that read less books and practice more.  Even J.S. Bach he haven’t rewritten any treatises of his time, and he actually haven’t written any treatises of his own, but as he was a child and lived with his brother, he wrote down music by other composers.

V:  Remember he wrote one page of, sort of rules in playing thoroughbass.

A:  Sure.

V:  One page!

A:  And that was enough.

V:  Mm hm.

A:  Because I think that practice is all or the most that you need.  Of course you need some guidance definitely, you need some guidance, some rules, and some knowledge but not overwhelm yourself with it.  Because you won’t have time and energy left to practice.

V: Thanks guys for listening to this conversation! We hope this was useful to you. Please send us more of your questions - we love helping you grow. And remember, when you practice...

A: ...Miracles happen!

V: This podcast is supported by Total Organist - the most comprehensive organ training program online.

A: It has hundreds of courses, coaching and practice materials for every area of organ playing, thousands of instructional videos and PDF's. You will NOT find more value anywhere else online...

V: Total Organist helps you to master any piece, perfect your technique, develop your sight-reading skills, and improvise or compose your own music and much much more…


A: Sign up and begin your training today at organduo.lt and click on Total Organist. And of course, you will get the 1st month free too. You can cancel anytime.


V: If you like our organ music, you can also support us on Buy Me a Coffee platform and get early access:


A: Find out more at https://buymeacoffee.com/organduo

Vidas: Hello and welcome to Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast!

Ausra: This is a show dedicated to helping you become a better organist.

V: We’re your hosts Vidas Pinkevicius...

A: ...and Ausra Motuzaite-Pinkeviciene.

V: We have over 25 years of experience of playing the organ

A: ...and we’ve been teaching thousands of organists online from 89 countries since 2011.

V: So now let’s jump in and get started with the podcast for today.

A: We hope you’ll enjoy it!

V: Hi guys!  This is Vidas.

A:  And Ausra.

V: Let’s start episode 631 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast. This question was sent by Keith, and he writes in response to my letter asking what are his goals and challenges in organ playing.  He writes,

Vidas,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and love of organ playing.

My dream for organ playing is to facilitate the expression of worship in music, with the language of harmony.

What things are holding me back from my dream?
1. My ignorance/lack of skill.
- In February I dusted off my marginal four years of grade school piano lessons, after 34 years.

2. Realizing what good technique is - what such technique should feel like when I practice and play.

3. Practice method/discipline - What is a minimum of major/minor scales, vs Hanon finger exercises, vs practicing a piece.
- I practice about an hour a day, some days twice that. Wish I could practice more.

The mini-course emails have been very helpful to me.  I let them queue up behind each other, until I have a chance to fully consider each one.

Regards,
Keith

V:  So Keith has been a recent subscriber to our newsletter, and his question is kind of very interesting, right?  Where do we start, Ausra?

A:  Well I wish to congratulate him first, that after not playing for so many years, he realized that he needs to do it.  I think that’s a wonderful way to get back to music.

V:  Yeah.  We’re recording this in the month of November, so he writes that in February he started playing again the instrument, right?  Which is half a year or so, more a little bit, almost a year, I would say closing to one year.  So his dream of facilitate the expression of worship with the language of harmony, how do you understand it, Ausra?

A:  Well that’s a very poetic way of expressing himself.

V:  Language of harmony.  Harmony means connection and science about the chords, right?  So does it mean that the harmony needs to be taken into consideration when Keith plays in a worship, or what....

A:  Well I think in this context I would say that harmony doesn’t mean that what I teach my school kids about connection of chords.  It’s more probably about harmony in general, as overall understanding of music for worship.

V:  Uh huh.  How music harmonizes our souls, right?

A:  Yes, I think this is more what he meant, if I’m correct.

V:  Okay.  So the things that are holding him back - the first is lack of skill and his ignorance.  Obviously after not playing for 34 years, you have to start someplace, somewhere, right?  Doesn’t always mean that you start in an advanced stage.  Most likely you start at the basics.

A:  Sure.  But you know, it’s good that you don’t start from scratch, because I understand from the letter Keith had a few years of school piano lessons, which is good.  Because then it’s easier to remember what he has done, and for his muscles, it’s easier to remember what he has done and to practice and to improve in an organ.

V:  So to answer the first part of the question, it’s like the skill will increase along with his experience.  The more he practices, the more it will increase.

A:  Yes, it’s very simple.  The more you will put in, the more you will get back.

V:  Mm hm.  The second question is about the technique.  What good technique feels like when people play.  I would say, before you answer, Ausra, I would say that it’s very obvious.  It’s effortless.

A:  Yes.  That’s what I wanted to say.  If you sit down on the organ bench and you can play a chosen piece without any hesitation and without too much of an effort, and obviously fluently without mistakes, then I think you will know that your skills are good enough, and that you are using good techniques and right fingering.

V:  So correct.  I think the technique will come also from practice.  And I think he doesn’t have to worry about the end result right now, it’s just he has to do the steps, do the process right now.

A:  Yes, it’s like right now I am working on the Bach’s Prelude and Fugue in G Major, BWV 541, and it has that nice opening in the pedal section where it’s only one single line.  But then later, after two lines, the whole texture appears, and pedals come up and it’s quite a thick texture.  And I usually play that introduction at the right tempo, at the concert tempo, and then I have to slow down when other voices come.  But I dreamt that someday I can play everything in the same tempo and I won’t have to slow down when the hard spot begins.  And I’m getting close to it, and it’s, actually it’s coming very gradually.  But it’s sort of like a miracle, all this learning process.

V:  To me, I just played my recital last weekend, so I’m also starting to pick up new repertoire for my next recital by recording 10 step videos for people to practice alongside with me.  And I also notice that when I sit down on the bench, I know that I can practice the first step, but not the tenth step.  Tenth step is way out of reach today.  But in a longer piece, like today I played the five pages long Allegretto by Vierne, it is an intermediate level piece, very nice harmony, Vierne’s chromatic harmony, and I thought that I would need a couple of more days to master this.  So today, it felt rather good, but tomorrow when I will come back, I know that what I worked on today will be much less secure.  And that’s okay, you need a few extra days and don’t rush things.

A:  Well, and about the last part of the question, how about…

V:  Scales, Hanon exercises, and the repertoire practice.

A:  Yes.  About proportional, how all this should be done.  I guess half and half would probably wouldn’t be the right way.  I would do much less.  Just simple exercises and more work on the repertoire.  Because while working on the repertoire, you can solve also some of your technical issues, technical problems, and just playing scales and arpeggios and chords might be too boring, and you might give up after awhile.  So I would say if you are practicing for an hour every day, do 10 minutes of practicing scales and arpeggios, and spend 50 minutes for working on the repertoire.

V:  You, so you mean like ⅙ of the time should be spent on the technique, right?  If you have only one hour.

A:  Yes, that’s what I said.

V:  If you have three hours, then you can spend more.

A:  Yeah.

V:  But in one hour, it’s not enough to play the repertoire for 20 minutes or 30 minutes.  You have to do more at the expense of the technical exercises, obviously.  Hopefully, Keith can practice more than one hour per day if he wants to achieve better results from time to time.

A:  Yes, because this art of playing organ, of playing any kind of musical instrument is time consuming thing.

V:  Yes.  Today I practiced, I think for two hours almost.  One hour and 15 minutes I spent on that piece, Allegretto by Vierne, and 30 minutes, I spent 35 minutes maybe, on improvising a fugue.  And that’s not enough.  Obviously I will practice at the end of the day the rest of my concert repertoire.

A:  Yes, and people who are not related to music, non-musicians, they don’t understand the time we spend actually working on our repertoire to get ready for our recitals.  Like my cousin just asked me recently, “Why do you still need to practice?  You are a professional.”  And I told her that if I would play the same repertoire over and over again, let’s say I would have like 10 or 20 pieces that I would play my entire life and would repeat them over and over again, then yes, of course I wouldn’t have to practice.  We would be alive all the time.  But because I’m playing a different repertoire and still learning new pieces, so I still need to practice.

V:  Yes, and I mean that you need to repeat each step that you're learning at least three times in a row without mistakes.  Well at least three times in general, not counting the mistakes.  But imagine if you just sit down and play one step, whatever that step may be at the current stage, either in quarter notes or in half notes, or one line at a time, or maybe one hand at a time, or just the pedals - whatever is your current goal with that segment or that piece.  So, if you just play through, what you're doing is you’re basically just repeating previously mastered material.  Yesterday - you learned something yesterday, you repeat it today.  And that’s it.  You don’t progress.  But if you play it one more time, the second time you start to feelsome, a little bit of progress.  Obviously not enough to advance faster, but the second time is already I think noticeable.  So I suggest you do it at least three times.  Do you feel that way, Ausra?

A:  Yes, I feel that way too.

V:  Each step, I mean.

A:  Yes.

V:  Mm hm.  So when you practice G Major Prelude and Fugue 541, you practice it three times as a rule, right?

A:  Yes, that’s what I usually do.  And the first time is always the worst.  And the last one is the best.  And if I would, let’s say I would come up the next day and I would be able to play right away as my third time of previous day, I would feel very happy.

V:  But that only will happen when you are ready, right?  When you have repeated, I don’t know how many times, 100 times entire piece?  Played all those steps totalling 100 repetitions.

A:  Well, I haven’t counted them, but yes, I guess you need to do that.  Because it’s sort of, it’s a not very hard piece, but it takes some time to learn it.

V:  Yeah, it’s not very hard when you’re playing in the comfort of your home.  But if you’re pretending to play in public, like at home but recital, like we do on Hauptwerk, or in a church, different acoustics, also in public, then entirely different situation.  So yeah, spend at least three repetitions with each step.  That’s the minimum to progress.  And only 10 minutes a day for technical issues.

A:  If you’re practicing only for one hour.

V:  Yeah.  All right, guys.  This was Vidas.

A:  And Ausra.

V:  Please send us more of your questions.  We love helping you grow.  And remember, when you practice,

A:  Miracles happen.

​V: This podcast is supported by Total Organist - the most comprehensive organ training program online.

A: It has hundreds of courses, coaching and practice materials for every area of organ playing, thousands of instructional videos and PDF's. You will NOT find more value anywhere else online...

V: Total Organist helps you to master any piece, perfect your technique, develop your sight-reading skills, and improvise or compose your own music and much much more…

A: Sign up and begin your training today at organduo.lt and click on Total Organist. And of course, you will get the 1st month free too. You can cancel anytime.

V: If you like our organ music, you can also support us on Patreon and get free CD’s.

A: Find out more at patreon.com/secretsoforganplaying

Vidas: So, Jeremy, I'm so delighted that we're finally meeting face to face and being able to talk with you and it's really a pleasure to get to know you better after all those long months that you've been on the team that transcribes fingering and pedaling for us. I'm so grateful to you and welcome to the show!

Jeremy: Thank you for having me!

V: Let's start our conversation, Jeremy about your background - how did you get into organ world and most specifically, how did you first fell in love with the organ? Do you remember the story?

J: Yeah! Well, my dad is a Lutheran minister. The church that he was working at was looking at trying to get me to start taking organ lessons. So they paid for the original organ lessons. That was when I was 14 or 15 - it's a long time ago. Wasn't really into it at the time but when my father moved to another church, it had a really great organ there. And I remember actually what made me fall in love with it. At one postlude, the organist was playing Guilmant's March on a Theme of Handel "Lift Up Your Heads" and when that fugue started, people started coming back into the church and that slowly built over time. And I just fell in love with the piece, I fell in love with the organ. I took lessons when I was in college. I have my doctorate in Music, in Piano Performance and so my first job after I received my doctorate was in a small town called Blue Mountain. There was a church looking for an organist and it was a great extra money so I started playing the organ more extensively and started studying even more at that point. And that's really when it took off. That was about 15 years ago now.

Listen to entire conversation

Check out Jeremy Owen's profile on Facebook
Email: jeremy dot owens at priorcliff dot edu

Vidas: Hi guys, this is Vidas. 

​Ausra: And Ausra.
 
V: Let’s start episode 359, of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast. This question was sent by Jeremy. And he writes:
 
Speeding up fingerwork. For some reason, my fingers feel sluggish. I have practiced with high fingers (a technique I use in piano) and shortening and lengthening the note values (like swinging or reverse swinging rhythms), but still seem to get stuck at one tempo. Also, have tried Vidas suggestions of stopping on every beat, then every other beat, etc.


V: Ausra, do you have problems with speeding up, up to concert tempo, sometimes?
 
A: Well, yes and no—because usually speeding up is not my main problem.
 
V: Slowing down, right, is your problem.
 
A: Well, keeping steady tempo is bigger problem, sometimes.
 
V: Uh-huh. Right now I’m starting to practice Sonata Ad Patres by Bronius Kutavicius, a living Lithuanian composer, and it has a middle movement—very fast. And the style is minimalistic, and lots of repetitions, with minimal adjustments are going on, so have to constantly be aware of those changes. But my fingers are not ready to play fast, so I’m playing really, really slow, and then stopping at two, every two notes—not every beat but every eighth note, actually. Because every beat would be second step, I guess. What do you think about this technique, Ausra?
 
A: Well, I have played this sonata many years ago. I don’t think I had any problems to play it in a fast tempo.
 
V: Mmm-hmm.
 
A: It’s quite comfortable, actually.
 
V: But it takes a while to get used to the melodic motives.
 
A: That’s true, but after you get used to it, I think it will be easy to do.
 
V: Do you think it has something to do with writing in fingering?
 
A: Well, obviously, yes.
 
V: I’m playing from your score, so it doesn’t have any fingering somehow.
 
A: Really?
 
V: Mmm-hmm. For some reason.
 
A: Does it have any pedaling.
 
V: No. Maybe...
 
A: Maybe it’s not my score?
 
V: Maybe you played from another score.
 
A: Well…
 
V: Could be.
 
A: I’m not sure, but I’m not used to write every finger.
 
V: Actually, it’s a clean score, no…
 
A: So, so it’s not my score.
 
V: No registration.
 
A: It’s not my score.
 
V: Mmm-hmm. We could ask Jeremy if he is writing in fingering in his, let’s say, Dorian Toccata that he’s playing a fugue. Or if he is actually working from our score, right? I hope so.
 
A: Well, I think if he still has trouble with speeding up his fingering, I think he needs to play more exercises, more skills.
 
V: Mmm-hmm.
 
A: More arpeggios, more chords, more Hanon exercises.
 
V: Yeah, Hanon is a nice collection, I guess. It takes in a fast tempo to play, only one hour to play, all three parts. But if you can do it then you basically can play any type of organ repertoire as well, and majority of piano repertoire too.
 
A: Yes, because I think that being able to play up to a right speed is question of how well your technique is developed.
 
V: Mmm-hmm. Yes. Well, what could Jeremy do besides what he’s doing? I think he’s on the right track—gradually lengthening the motives. But it takes more than one day for one stage. Let’s say step one would be to play and stop every beat, or maybe every eighth note. But it takes just more than one day, I guess, maybe three days to do this comfortably. And then second step would also take several days. Right?
 
A: Of course! I think all of us, we want that immediate result.
 
V: That would be nice, Ausra.
 
A: Yes.
 
V: What would you give if you had this ability in exchange? What would you sacrifice if you could play any type of organ music at sight, without any problem, in a concert tempo, perfectly, right now?
 
A: Huh!
 
V: Your pinky finger?
 
A: No, no. But I could, I can sacrifice one of my meals today—let’s say, breakfast.
 
V: Oh, I know why. It would actually be very healthy, too.
 
A: Well, yes.
 
V: But not easy to do. I would probably sacrifice my second breakfast.
 
A: Are you having two breakfasts every morning?


V: Not every day.
 
A: Funny.
 
V: Yeah. It’s interesting what Jeremy would sacrifice if he had this ability.
 
A: Unfortunately, I don’t think we have such a choice, just to decide to sacrifice something and get some special quality.
 
V: I know, like golden fish from sea would come out and say ‘I could grant you three wishes’.
 
A: And one of your wishes would be to play any piece, at the concert tempo right away?
 
V: Choose wisely, you say!
 
A: Yes.
 
V: Because only two will be left.
 
A: That’s right.
 
V: Hmm.
 
A: So I guess you need to work on your pieces at your pace, as fast as you can, and don’t want to rush things right away.
 
V: Maybe you are right, because practicing things slowly takes a lot of time, but it also gives much more satisfaction. Remember how we watch movies how we read books. Reading books is much more pleasurable, I think, than watching movies because this pleasure lasts longer.
 
A: Well, then I wonder why are you asking me, begging me each week to go to movie.
 
V: (Laughs.) I know.
 
A: You never begging me to read books for example with you.
 
V: If I did, would you read with me?
 
A: I don’t know.
 
V: Let’s read tonight and see if we can survive without movies—just one night.
 
A: Yes.
 
V: Nice! What about playing excerpts of that piece, Ausra, but exercises—maybe transposing in various keys?
 
A: That’s a great idea. I think we have talked about it already quite a few times. If you don’t want for some reason to play additional exercises or don’t have time to do that, then you need to make exercises out from your own repertoire.
 
V: I did once, and actually from memory. This was Magnificat Primi Toni. Magnificat by, I think Heinrich Scheidemann.
 
A: Did it work for you?
 
V: Absolutely. Because, you know what happened? I think practiced this piece in short excerpts—maybe one measure at at time—but went through the circle of fifths, in ascending number of accidentals, and then going back to the flat side. So what happened; I memorized this piece in fragments, and those fragments became my language too. I could actually improvise like Scheidemann sometimes.
 
A: Excellent.
 
V: But then, I thought, ‘well there was Schiedemann once, we don’t need the second Schiedemann, but there wasn’t any Vidas before so we need Vidas now’, right?
 
A: That’s true.
 
V: But it works for people who are interested in copying the style of certain composer in their improvisations. They could actually memorize just one measure and go up the ascending number of accidentals, and then going backwards through the circle of fifths. It’s really helpful. Plus it’s very healthy for technique.
 
A: Yes, but if we are talking about Scheidemann, I don’t think he would be writing his compositions for the keys with many flats or many sharps.
 
V: No. Because obviously…
 
A: Not that style, not that time.
 
V: Obviously the type of keyboard was different—it had split keys.
 
A: Sure.
 
V: It had mean-tone temperament so keys with more than probably two flats or sharps would sound harsh or too harsh. Right? I guess now, for just educational sake it was work right, to let’s say take Bach’s Dorian Toccata and practice fragment by fragment in various keys. Even for Jeremy it’s a good technique, especially those places which give him trouble.
 
A: I think it might be quite beneficial.
 
V: Should we ask him to report to us in a month or so?
 
A: If he will do that, yes.
 
V: Mmm-hmm.
 
A: It would be very interesting to know how it went and if he had succeeded.
 
V: Good! Thank you guys. This was Vidas.
 
A: And Ausra.
 
V: We hope this was useful to you. And please keep sending us your wonderful questions. We love helping you grow. And remember, when you practice...
 
A: Miracles happen!

Vidas: Hi guys, this is Vidas.
 
Ausra: And Ausra.
 
V: Let’s start episode 317 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast. This question was sent by Barbara, and she writes:
 
My challenge continues to be aware of posture + unrelaxed hands, arms, and shoulders to prevent numbness in my hands (especially my right hand). This came to a crisis 2.5 yrs ago. I've been to doctors, occupational therapist, and Alexander Technique teacher and am determined to control it without surgery. Mild arthritis is also an issue (age 67). I hold chords too tightly, press the keys harder than I need to, and frequently find my shoulders hunched. Releasing all of this helps.

I'm thinking of focusing on 17th-18th c. French organ music this fall (interesting, need to learn ornaments + performance practice better, and not so many chords). Will give my feet exercises and tricky Bach pedal passages (and learn the hands later).
 
V: So, let’s talk, Ausra, first, about how to relax the body when you’re playing organ.
 
A: I think one of the key things is to breathe, because if you will not breathe, then your body will get tension.
 
V: What do you mean, “Breathe,” we all breathe all the time, right?
 
A: Well, yes, but…
 
V: You know, they say you cannot survive more than three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food. Three, three, three. So I think everybody breathes.
 
A: And I think I would survive three minutes without any air, but…
 
V: Maybe you would get unconscious, but you will still be alive…
 
A: Okay
 
V: Until that time, I guess. But, what do you mean to learn how to breathe and….
 
A: That you’re breathing needs to be meaningful.
 
V: Conscious?
 
A: Conscious, yes.
 
V: So, when you’re playing something on the organ, you also have to think about breathing?
 
A: That’s right.
 
V: How to do this at once. Think about music and about breathing.
 
A: Well, if you would think about musical structure, how the piece is put together, you would also notice that it’s not through-composed.
 
V: There are some pieces which are through-composed.
 
A: Well, yes, but what I’m meaning is that each piece has its own phrasing. And that even naturally music, after the phrase, takes a break. So if the music breathes, you need to breathe, too!
 
V: Oh, the easiest way to imagine this, would proabably would be if you are playing a wind instrument.
 
A: Yes, that’s right.
 
V: And you have to breathe at the end of the phrase.
 
A: And in some sense, organ is also a wind instrument.
 
V: Why?
 
A: Because it has pipes!
 
V: I see! So everything that has pipes is a wind instrument. Or not?
 
A: Yes!
 
V: Nice. So then, what goes on in our minds when we play, we try to breathe, does it help to relax when we breathe?
 
A: That’s right, and also your posture is very important, when you sit on the organ bench. You need to keep your back straight.
 
V: And, people always forget this. Right?
 
A: Yes, especially you!
 
V: Because they…. Especially me?
 
A: Yes.
 
V: Right. You guys shouldn’t see me right now. I’m almost in half line position recording this conversation, reclining on our chair.
 
A: Armchair.
 
V: Yes, Armchair. So, yes, sitting up straight… what else would help? Making small economical efficient movements. Not hitting too much.
 
A: Yes, but sometimes the soft motion with your arms might help you to relax, too. And sometimes, when people try to do very economic motions, let’s just say they get tension, too.
 
V: Oh right.
 
A: At least that’s what I feel.
 
V: So it’s a practice. It takes time to learn this.
 
A: And another important thing is you need to take frequent breaks if you have problems as Barbara has.
 
V: Yesterday, I practiced the church organ….or was it the day before… maybe the day before...with my phone, I have this app which has a timer from the Pomodoro technique. It beeps every 25 minutes and reminds me to take a break. And then, it beeps again after 5 minutes to remind me that it’s time to work. So after four of those sessions, it beeps again, and I can have a longer break, like 20 minutes. And then, it starts all over again, if I need to continue the practice of some sort. So, would you like to try it, Ausra, artificial reminders by phone?
 
A: Well, actually, my body, I think, is the best reminder for me.
 
V: You never forget how you feel when you are just so deeply focus on the music?
 
A: Well, I used to forget, but not anymore. With age, your body becomes more and more fragile.
 
V: Like a glass. You have to take care of the body more.
 
A: Or it will break. Another thing that might help, do some exercises. Do some yoga,
 
V: Stretching.
 
A: or some Pilates.
 
V: Even, probably, swimming is good.
 
A: Well, yes, but you have to know how to do it. Of course, in all these activities that I mentioned before, you have to know how to do it, because otherwise you might hurt yourself even more.
 
V: Taking a walk is very natural and a lot of people can take advantage of that without any training.
 
A: I think this is about the only activity that you will not hurt yourself, probably.
 
V: Unless you have knee problems.
 
A: True.
 
V: So that’s about relaxing your body. What about French organ performance for Barbara? Do you have some tips and pointers to start with?
 
A: Well, I guess you have to know a little bit about French ornamentation, of course, when you play music like this, 17th and 18th century French music, because it’s all based on the ornaments. I would say it’s half written notes, and then half the ornaments, if not even more than half.
 
V: In other words, if you omit all the ornaments and play just the written music, it’s so boring!
 
A: Yes, it is. And, I heard that with French people, they never play the same piece in the same manner. They always change something—add more ornaments or play them differently. It’s hard for us that are raised more like German school to understand.
 
V: Eins, zwei, drei!
 
A: Yes, that’s right.
 
V: And then, probably, if people try historical instruments, then they discover this freedom and beauty of color in French organs. They’re not so good with polyphony, of course, but the harmonies are amazing, and colors, too.
 
A: So the second thing, the most important thing after learning ornamentation, would be to learn about registration—how to register a piece. Because, again, if you will not register them right, they will lose their sense.
 
V: Good thing that French composers tend to notate the registration quite specifically. But then, you need to adapt it to modern instruments if you’re playing one.
 
A: Yes, and I used to think that French classical music is sort of a little bit boring, yes? But then I attended a master class, which was held by Olivier Latry at the Saint Cecilia Cathedral in Omaha, USA, and I really enjoyed how he talked about it, how he demonstrated it. And he compared the French classical music to theater. And it really makes sense how, for example, if you have a dialog between two hands on two different manuals with different registrations, and how one voice argues against another one, and it’s really like a theater. You can make an entire story out of it. It’s very interesting?
 
V: What’s your favorite French classical composer right now?
 
A: De Grigny. Nicolas de Grigny!
 
V: Right. He is much more advanced than some of his contemporaries in terms of polyphony.
 
A: What about yourself?
 
V: Well, I would tend to agree with you on those matters. It’s easier to agree than to argue.
 
A: Do you think I couldn’t take an argument well?
 
V: No, not because you couldn’t, but I think de Grigny is a great composer, so there is nothing to argue about.
 
A: Yes, and of course I also love The Noëls by Daquin.
 
V: Will you be playing them for Christmas?
 
A: Maybe I’ll do some. That’s always fun. And again, it’s so nice, you don’t have to use pedals, you just use your two hands.
 
V: But don’t be deceived too fast, because in the middle of the cycle of variations, they’re extremely virtuosic.
 
A: I know! Especially in Daquin’s variations.
 
V: They start slow, but they finish, oh….. like fire!
 
A: That’s true.
 
V: Ok guys, let’s go and practice now, because we think that just talking about those issues won’t help you advance in organ playing. You need to apply those tips in your practice. Because when you practice,
 
A: Miracles happen.

Vidas: Hi guys, this is Vidas.
 
Ausra: And Ausra.
 
V: Let’s start episode 299 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast.  This question was sent by John and he writes:
 
“Hi Vidas and Ausra,

Thank you for your amazing blogs lately, there's been some great discussions and I value the different perspectives you both bring.

I'm wondering if you could please talk about how to improve finger accuracy, especially with fast passages. Specifically I'm trying to play In Dulci Jubilo BWV 729 by Bach, your training videos were great and I surprised myself how fast I was able to learn it (for me), it still took 2 months.

Now my problem is trying to speed up to concert tempo. Most professional organists on YouTube seem to play this piece in 2:40-2:50 minutes, your Christmas Concert video shows you play it in about this time.

I seem to be able to play it in about 3:10 mins quite ok without mistakes, but when I go faster, I seem to slur lots of notes by brushing against the key alongside, for example playing the note A I might bump the G sharp alongside. It feels like my fingers fumble, and I make mistakes in random places and even lose my place completely. This makes me feel quite uneasy and I don't have any confidence that I can get through the piece without messing it up.
So I need to go about 10-20% faster and it seems a big jump in difficulty. I have noticed I struggle with fast pieces in general.
Is it normal to take a long time to increase the tempo after having learnt a new piece?
What exercises should I do to be able to play fast tempo pieces accurately?

I want to play this piece as the postlude for the Nine Lessons and Carols service on Dec 16th, so I still have time, but this will be a big occasion with lots of people and the former retired organist will be there so I don't want to stuff it up!

I hope your day goes well,

Take care,
God bless,
John...”
 
V: That’s a nice message.
 
A: Yes, that’s a very nice message as John always writes to us.  Well, let’s try to help him.
 
V: OK.  In Dulci Jubilo the most characteristic thing is probably passages in the upper part.  Sometimes they run in soprano but sometimes they go between both hands and Bach learned this technique presumably from visiting Buxtehude in Lubeck.
 
A: Yes.
 
V: I think the main difficulty with those passages is 3 sharps of course.  It’s in A Major.
 
A: So what we could suggest for John if he has the possibility to practice those scales. 
 
V: Right.
 
A: I would work on scales in A Major.
 
V: A Major.  Probably in related keys as well because Bach has modulation.
 
A: In D Major probably, E Major.
 
V: F Sharp Minor.
 
A: F Sharp Minor yes, it’s a parallel key.
 
V: And C Sharp Minor maybe.
 
A: True.  In general I think playing scales is important technique to develop and it helps a lot when playing repertoire.
 
V: B Minor too because it has 2 sharps.  So playing scales and arpeggios too because these passages have arpeggiated figures as well.  Maybe we could suggest to John to isolate one passage and look how it is put together and maybe transpose it to different keys.  The only passage, nothing more, just the passage.  Would that work?
 
A: Well that might work but in general I think he needs to strengthen his finger muscles.
 
V: Oh, so Hanon exercises.
 
A: Yes Hanon exercises would be another resource to look at and to work on.  But overall I think that you don’t have to look at other performers and compare your tempo with another.  Because the most important thing is that you wouldn’t take too fast tempo.  You need to take tempo as fast as you can still control everything because otherwise that freedom is OK for now.  Maybe you will speed it up a little bit but don’t rush.
 
V: And maybe when John comes back to this piece maybe couple years later he can play without any trouble in less than three minutes.
 
A: That’s right.  So I think listeners will forgive you if you will not play very fast but they will not forgive you if you mess up everything even if you play it fast.
 
V: One or two mistakes is OK obviously but in things like that we tend to get scared of mistakes and one mistake leads to another and another to another and pretty soon we panic.
 
A: That’s right.  And for listeners it’s so uncomfortable to listen to such a performance because you know that you are not guilty of something but you feel that way.
 
V: Umm-hmm.  You feel sorry for that organist and sort of helpless because you can’t jump in and play for him.
 
A: That’s right.  So I always think you need to take a tempo in which you can control the situation because otherwise things might just get out of your control.
 
V: So probably the most beneficial would be Part 1 and Part 2 Hanon exercises and he could stack up maybe ten to twenty exercises in a row.  Maybe not necessarily learning all of them together but maybe one day he would learn number one and then repeat a few days, after a while he would add number two so then he would have two exercises in his repertoire, three, four, five, and I don’t know in three months he would have maybe entire first part ready to play in a medium tempo and then his hands get tired, his fingers would get tired too, but sooner or later they would be stronger.
 
A: That’s right and it’s very good to practice on the piano too.  Because in order to improve your technique you need to practice mechanical instruments, either mechanical organ or mechanical piano because electronic keyboard does not give for you enough for your fingers to work on.
 
V: Resistance?
 
A: Yes.
 
V: Some very new keyboards they have this artificial resistance which is similar to real organ but not many people play them.
 
A: True.
 
V: So I guess I could also recommend playing on a table just mechanically lifting and hitting the table with fingers those exercises because it’s a pain to listen to them, right, for the family for example.  They are very un-musical and boring unless he takes different modes and adds some sharps, not only in C Major.

​OK guys, please send us more of your questions, we love helping you grow.  This was Vidas.
 
A: And Ausra.
 
V: And remember when you practice…
 
A: Miracles happen.