Vidas: Hi guys, this is Vidas!

Ausra: And Ausra!

V: Let’s start episode 577 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast. This question was sent by Steven, and he writes:

“Hi Vidas,

Not long ago Vidas it was my job to serve at the organ to lead a congregation of mostly untrained singers in a meeting outside a worship service with the singing of a closing song with which most of them were unfamiliar.
The tune was St. Clement, a traditional hymn not especially easy for a trained voice to sing that's better known to members of the Anglican faith and perhaps a Methodist or two in the audience but completely unfamiliar to everyone else.
This number does not appear in any of the newer hymnals -- I have only found it included in a couple of very old editions of hymn books which have been out of print for a very long time.
People singing this tune on YouTube videos are doing so at a tempo Moderato about half the time and the other half of the time they sing at something close to an Adagio.

Three stanzas of this closing song were to be sung, the words were provided to the audience, and I began with a short introduction and took the first stanza at an Andante (slow walk tempo) thinking that this pace would keep everyone together and the organ would lead.
I was wrong.
Instead of the organ leading them, the Anglicans in the audience who were used to hearing it sung at a still slower tempo ignored the organ and sang it at the tempo they remember from their worship services -- some of them even lagged behind a few others.
The result was that they all trailed behind the organ through the whole first stanza and were late to the finish line at the point where the organ paused between stanzas.
They were still trudging through the words of the first stanza at that point, and, as I began the second stanza to avoid the awkward silence a senior officer stopped the whole thing and a member of the audience was then asked to conduct the congregation (and the organ) beginning at the top with the slow tempo, through all three stanzas, with everyone including me brought back to the starting line and subject to the baton.
We managed to get through it this way, but not without considerable embarrassment.

Up until then I used to believe that "not every day is a good one for the organist" was an observation that tended to fade into oblivion with the onset of crow's feet, gray hair, more pill bottles, and the use of a cane.
I was wrong about that, too !
Even though I was well prepared and the instrument gave sufficient support for the singing, I never anticipated that the singers would drag through it with such perfunctory indifference to the tempo set by the organ.
This wasn't the typical dragging that an organist can encounter in a singing congregation from time to time -- it was a complete mismatch in tempo from the get-go.
When any congregation sings, the organ MUST lead, but this time that didn't seem to matter..
Afterwards, since the same closing song is prescribed for the organization's regular meetings, I was asked to chair a committee to come up with a solution to keep this kind of calamity from happening again, even to the point of recommending a different song be prescribed, if need be.

My feeling is, the problem isn't with the song although it isn't particularly easy to sing, and I really don't think it needs to be changed.
It's a beautiful song -- the singers just need to get in sync with the organ and stay that way, pay attention to the tempo taken by the organ, and not go their merry way with blinders on their ears.
The fact that so many of the singers in the audience preferred such a slow tempo was only learned by this organist, sad to say, after everything crash landed and not before.

The organist wasn't fired over it, the situation wasn't that dire, nobody lost their life over it, no blood was drawn, but it occurred to me that the question of how to best move forward from here would benefit other organists as well as myself.
Any suggestions you or Ausra may have from your personal experiences or circle of acquaintances that could be shared with your subscribers, including myself, about possible steps to take would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks, as always,
Steve”

V: So, that’s a very colorful question, very extended description. I hope Steven wrote a blog post out of it.

A: It’s very entertaining. I kept laughing inside of me while you kept reading it, because actually, we have talked about rehearsing the congregation before the service if you know that hymns are unfamiliar or putting your choir member downstairs, mixing them among the congregation members so that they could lead the congregational singing, but obviously there are sometimes ways when you just have to adjust to your congregation and you have to adapt. Because if a minister has to stop service and to start that hymn over again, that’s not a good sign. It shouldn’t be like this. And, in some cases, I think what you can do is actually just to adapt to them or just to quit the church. It reminded me about that situation that we had many years ago in Lithuania when we were just organ students for the Academy of Music and Vidas and I were sharing one position of organist in a small church in the center of Vilnius, and basically old ladies were so unhappy about how we played organ, and it was a problem of us playing hymns too fast for them. And since I played a little bit slower, they preferred me over Vidas, and I remember one little old lady chasing Vidas for maybe one kilometer behind after a service until she finally caught him and started to teach him how to play, that he needs to take a slow tempo because elderly people are in the congregation, and so on and so forth. But basically,  right at that moment I understood that it’s basically a good time to quit. We didn’t at that moment, but actually we were both fired without any explanations maybe a few months later. So I guess sometimes these things are simply hopeless.

V: That’s right, Ausra. I guess another solution would be to sing more new hymns that people don’t know, and they don’t have any prejudice.

A: Yes, that way, you know, they could listen more to what the organ is doing. 

V: But this situation shows that this congregation is not willing to adapt. It’s simply the fact of life. Right? And I wonder if they sing loudly enough or actively. I presume that they are sort of lethargically sleeping with their eyes open and moving through the motions, not actively participating in the service.

A: Well, I’m not sure about that, but anyway, you could either play the Organo Pleno and try to  ignore what is happening downstairs, or you could maybe have your own microphone and sing like solo very loudly above them all. But basically, I think in these cases like this, it’s useless to fight.

V: Yes, because one or two or five people will start complaining, and those people, maybe they are in a minority, they will be a loud minority! 

A: And you know, like in our old story, I think what happened is that old lady and her friends started complaining to the priest day after day after day after day, and he didn’t have another solution, only to get rid of us.

V: It was easier for him to get rid of us than to get rid of those ladies!

A: But what I found out later, is that actually instead of us, her son started to play the organ in that church!

V: The old lady’s son?

A: Yes, so that was a corruption, a little bit… so….

V: Ah, maybe she had some plans!

A: Yes!

V: Evil plans!

A: She definitely did, because these sort of pretenders to be very faithful in the Catholic churches that are there day and night, they are not doing really good things to their church, although they think they are the most holy and they know the things right, and…

V: Aren’t you glad that we are no longer working in this church?

A: Yes, I am. I really am!

V: So, you always have to choose sometimes the less obvious way. And do what feels right for your heart. Yes?

A: That’s right.

V: Thank you guys, we hope this was useful to you. Please send us more of your questions. We love helping you grow. And remember, when you practice,

A: Miracles happen!

Vidas: Hi guys!  This is Vidas.
 
Ausra:  And Ausra.
 
V: Let’s start episode 507.  This question was sent by Dan.  And he writes: 
 
Hi Vidas and Ausra, Hard to believe that you guys are almost up to 500 episodes already.  Seems just like yesterday that you started the podcast.  I’ve been a listener right from day one.  To comment on this episode, another thing that an organist could do during service, if playing a hymn that’s less familiar, is to solo out the melody  on a second manual, with a prominent reed  stop, a couple of principals, or a suitable combination on that second manual, so that the melody could be heard.  I’ve observed over the years that this is a technique that I’ve heard organist use, to assist congregations with new material.  Our organist that we had when I’d first started going to the church I’m going to, back in 2000, if there was an unfamiliar hymn,  before the service, he’d take maybe 10 minutes and go over it.  Then during service, for the first verse, he’d solo out the melody, on the festival trumpet on the choir division of the organ there.  I think in the service, soloing out the melody of a hymn, is a good technique to assist the congregation right from the organ.
 
A:  Well, it is a good technique, and I think it might work in many cases, but in Lithuania, for example, we have many, many churches where an organ has only one manual, one single manual, so that technique simply wouldn’t work.  And in that case, I would suggest if you want to really make a melody very prominent, you need to play it in octaves on that single manual.
 
V:  No other chords?
 
A:  No other chords, yes.  No supporting harmony.  Mainly to play the hymn melody in the pedal, and then to do it in octaves with your hands.
 
V:  So for example, if the starting note of the hymn is, let’s say, treble C, your left hand would play tenor C, and pedal would play bass C, the lowest note.
 
A:  That’s right.
 
V:  In three octaves, basically.
 
A:  Yes.
 
V:  Mm hm.
 
A:  Because, this is like a dream, when Dan talks about Festive Trumpet.  How many organs in Lithuania have a Festive Trumpet that is in shape good enough to be able to play it?
 
V:  Yeah.  First of all, reeds need to be tuned regularly.
 
A:  True, true.  But of course, you know, we are living in a different world.  And each time when Vidas and I go abroad to give recitals, the most amazing thing for me is how well organs abroad are taken care of.  Because, whenever you go to France or to Scandinavian countries, organs are in the best shape, although some of them stand in unheated churches, and still everything is right in tune.
 
V:  Well, it’s very simple actually.  Organist takes care of regular maintenance that you need to work on, for example, tuning the reed or a flute or two if it’s out of tune a little bit.  But less often.  Reeds are more often, right? Most often, organist has to have an assistant helping him or her.  So just one person has to press the keys on the organ console.  The organist has to go into the pipes and tune those reeds.  Sometimes reeds are not far away.  They can reach, he can reach it from the organ bench or from the ground floor, too.  But, if organist takes care of regular reeds maintenance, then he or she has to have a good training in this.  It’s not for everyone, right?
 
A:  True.  And in Lithuania, we lack that sort of training.  Most of organists just have no idea what is inside of the instrument, and have no idea how to maintain it.
 
V:  And no interest in it.
 
A:  True.
 
V:  Basically no interest in finding out even how the organ functions.
 
A:  And this is jsut too bad because we have so many beautiful churches.  Especially in Vilnius, most of them are built in the Baroque style, and we have wonderful acoustics.  But organs aren’t in good shape, many of them.
 
V:  And for example, organists write their registration without any regard of what stops they’re using, right?  They would write down numbers.
 
A:  That’s right.
 
V:  But they don’t know what those numbers mean.  When they go to another organ, they have to start their registration process all over again.  Because number 5 or number 18 doesn’t tell them anything. 
 
A:  That’s right.
 
V:  So that’s one thing.  They’re not interested into technicalities of the instrument.  And another thing is that a church has to have a contract with an organ building firm. 
 
A:  Well, you need to have an organ building firm.  Do you remember when we tried to get hold of some organ firm that would take care of our organ at St. John’s so that we wouldn’t have to do it regularly?
 
V:  Nobody wanted it.
 
A:  Nobody wanted it, nobody took that position.  So we do everything ourselves.
 
V:  Mm hm.
 
A:  Basically, it’s because we don’t have many organ building shops in Lithuania anymore.
 
V:  Only about two, I would say, are left.
 
A: Yes.  It’s not enough.
 
V:  There is some sign that one or two younger people are more interested in this, and in the future might open their practice.
 
A:  Well, but you know, how will you make a living?  It’s very hard.  They would not receive many new contracts, and only take care of old instruments.  Who will pay you for doing that work?  Usually, you know, church doesn’t want to pay for it.
 
V:  If you travel around the country just doing maintenance, let’s say on weekdays, right?  Five days a week, you can travel to five organs.
 
A:  True.  And I think that what makes this all issue, is that so many people don’t understand about organ at all.  And even well-educated people don’t.  Because I remember maybe ten or more years back, we had this question risen in Vilnius, because of St. John’s church organ.  I think the rector asked, “So, we built an instrument, we paid so much money, and now it needs tuning, it needs maintenance?”  He couldn’t believe it.  So, it’s just such a narrow-mindedness, I would call it.
 
V:  Yeah.  Organists have to do more education.  Educating activities, showing for the general audiences how their organ works, how much is needed to maintain it, right?  And even organ builders who are left here still active in the country need to open their shops for the society.  For the general audience, once in a while.  And invite and give tours to show how the pipes are constructed, how they work on new organs or restorations of old instruments.  That would be very interesting.
 
A:  Yes, it would be. 
 
V:  Excellent.  So we started this conversation with a question from Dan, right?
 
A:  And finished it very differently.  But anyway, it’s so nice that Dan has listened to our podcasts since the first episode, and that he now wonders about us doing 500 already. 
 
V:  Yes, this is number 507.  So we already passed number 500.   By the time you will hear this, guys, we might be recording 520 perhaps.
 
A:  Yes, that’s a possibility.  But anyway, I think Dan’s idea about soloing out the melody is very appropriate.  And if you have larger organ and have possibility to do it, then please do it, because it really works.  Of course, the hymn has to be in sort of festival character.  It shouldn’t be, you wouldn’t use solo trumpet for, let’s say hymn that is in a soft character
 
V:  Yes, because…
 
A:   ...or a sorrowful character, because reeds provide festive mood, festive atmosphere.
 
V:  Yeah.  If you need to solo out a melody on a gentle hymn, then maybe use some kind of principal combination.
 
A:  Yes.
 
V:  Or maybe flute combination with flutes 8, 4, maybe Tierce or a 5th, or like a cornet.
 
A:  Yes.  I thought about cornet if you don’t have a trumpet, for example, you can use cornet instead of it.  It will sound probably more gentile than trumpet, but would still work really well.
 
V:  You mean gentle.
 
A:  Yes, gentle.
 
V:  Good.  Thank you guys.  This was Vidas.
 
A:  And Ausra.
 
V:  Please send us more of your questions.  We love helping you grow.  And remember, when you practice,
 
A:  Miracles happen.

Vidas: Hi guys!  This is Vidas.
 
Ausra:  And Ausra.
 
V: Let’s start episode 471 of Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast.  And this question was sent by Jeremy.  He wrote on our Basecamp communication channel for Total Organist Community:
 
Going to be a busy week, so I hope to get to the organ a little more than I think I will.  We are having new floors put into our upstairs, so I will be hanging around the house.  Piano practice will probably not happen, and my dogs will be going a little nuts with the construction happening.  If possible, I will practice on the G minor Little Prelude and Fugue for Postlude on Sunday, and Demessieux's Attende Domine for Prelude.  After that, I will be working on my normal repertoire.
 
And I wrote to him: 
I have a feeling your congregation will enjoy hearing Demessieux. Do you write some program notes in the church bulletin?
 
And Jeremy answered:
No.  Only a portion of the congregation listens to the preludes and postlude, so that lets me plan things like the Demessieux or even Messaien.
 
And then, Dianne jumped into the conversation as well:
A portion is something!  When I subbed for my daughter, I played the last half of a 3 minute postlude to an empty sanctuary, save one little old lady, who stood up and applauded when I was done!  My daughter says this is normal for her as well, and she is an excellent organist. And they mostly talk through the preludes, or enter the sanctuary at the last moment.
 
To this, I responded: 
This is all quite sad to hear. Really what happens is that service starts with a prelude and ends with a postlude. So lots of education needs to be done. Including clergy. Maybe write short program notes about the music to be played that week in the church bulletin.
 
What do you think about our correspondence, Ausra?
 
A: Well, that’s very nice that people on Basecamp can communicate between themselves.  I think it is very helpful.  We can share problems, we can support each other.  But the thing that struck me was that old lady who listened to that postlude and applauded afterwards.  And it makes me feel that, you know, it doesn’t matter how many people listen to you.  You always have to do your best.  Because sometimes one old lady might be more important than entire crowd.
 
V: Yes.
 
A: You never know when you will reach somebody’s heart with your music.
 
V: And this old lady might be a very famous organist, for example, traveling the country.
 
A: Well, it doesn’t matter if she is famous or she is not.  The most important thing for me is that you reach her, you touch her with your music.  And that’s, you know, I think that’s what music is about.
 
V: Touching people’s hearts?
 
A: True. Don’t you think so?
 
V: Of course.  Then, I would think that educating people, educating congregation would help here a lot. Do you remember our church, Grace Lutheran Church, when we worked in Lincoln, Nebraska – they had a tradition that musical director, Sara Schott, would write a short note about today’s music selections.  And I’m not sure if people read it or not, but it was there, and anybody who was interested could actually get educated this way.
 
A: I don’t remember that, actually.  Probably I haven’t read the notes.
 
V: Well, you were busy playing.
 
A: True.
 
V: And, what’s your impression about preludes and postludes in our church, at Grace Lutheran Church at that time?  Did people listen?
 
A: Well, some of them listen, but some of them do not.  I think it’s common for many congregations around the world. 
 
V: Mm hm.
 
A: Somebody cares, and somebody not.  You know, I remember thinking in Catholic Church, I sometimes observe people during the mass, that as soon as we receive communion, we leave the building, church building.
 
V: Wow!
 
A: Yes, we, some of them really doesn’t wait for final blessing and the end of the mass.  What could you, how could you force them to stay and to listen to your prelude, I mean, for your postlude, if we leave right after receiving communion?
 
V: Maybe you could play the postlude during communion!  Ha ha!
 
A: That wouldn’t be good.  You would be kicked out of church!
 
V: Yeah, that’s a tricky situation.  When people don’t care, what can you do? 
 
A: But you know, when we are talking about this problem, I remember this comic strip on the, I believe it was on Dr. Quentin Faulkner's door…
 
V: Yeah.
 
A: Where you know, old lady…
 
V: Brenda.
 
A: Brenda, yes – she was standing next to the organ bench with a long…
 
V: Gun?
 
A: Gun.  It’s like hunting gun, I believe.
 
V: Gun shot.
 
A: Yes.
 
V: Shotgun!
 
A: Yes, shotgun!  And it said, “Brenda silenced the crowd for her prelude.” (laughs)  And I have experienced episodes like this, when I’ve wanted to shut people down for my prelude or my postlude.  Especially when I would learn something really sophisticated.
 
V: Yeah.  Ausra stands up from, on the organ bench and yells, “You should have listened to my prelude!”
 
A: But the most important thing, I think, and one of the hardest things while serving the church is to play as well as you can, no matter what happens downstairs.  And just focus on your music, no matter what.
 
V: Mm hm.  It would be interesting to hear other listeners’ opinion and feedback in their churches.  Do people appreciate music, or is it just a background noise?
 
A: I think it’s different in each case.  I think you can find people always that appreciate music and people who don’t care about it.
 
V: Mm hm.  That’s right.  The good thing today is that you can find fans for your music, listeners for your music, much easier with technology than earlier.  Playing in church is no longer a, you know, one opportunity for the organist to play in public or engage with the organ nowadays.
 
A: You mean not the only opportunity, yes?
 
V: Not the only, yes.  Put it online, put your video online, and watch it spread.
 
A: Yes, like Vidas does!
 
V: And sometimes Ausra! 
 
A: Yeah.
 
V: Excellent.  Thanks, guys.  This was Vidas.
 
A: And Ausra.
 
V: Please send us more of your questions.  We love helping you grow.  And remember, when you practice…
 
A: Miracles happen. 

​By Vidas Pinkevicius (get free updates of new posts here)

When Ausra and I were church musicians at St. John's before going to the US to study, we had to deal with the congregation that didn't sing hymns very actively.

I mean they joined in when the organ led them but were barely audible. The sound was halfhearted. By the way, that's how Lithuanians sing in churches in general.

Although we have traditional song festivals which have been running from the early 1920's (and now they are part of the UNESCO cultural heritage) but singing in Catholic churches is not our forte.

How about your congregation?

Do people enthusiastically join in hymn singing? Or do they just go through the motions without adding any energy?

John from Australia also has this challenge. He just moved from another town and found a congregation which he likes. They even let him play their organ and were amazing at his abilities.

So they offered him to play for their church services a couple of times per month. But John noticed that people don't sing from their hearts.

If you are in a similar situation, you might find my training "Enthusiastic Hymn Singing" helpful (50% discount is valid until May 5). Free for Total Organist students.

By Ausra Motuzaite-Pinkeviciene (get free updates of new posts here)​​​​​​

How would you feel if your pastor wrote thanks to you for leading the music making in the church service?

I know, you would feel grateful, right?

That's how one of our subscribers, Carolina felt. A while ago we received a this message from her:

"​Dear Vidas and Ausra, I am forwarding an email from the pastor that led the service yesterday.  I am a relief-organist and literally played in every church in our town. Thanks for your assistance from afar.  I had so many silly questions and they were all promptly answered in a way that made me feel “I can do that”. Many times the emails sent by you were about techniques of aspects that I have been lying awake about. My son plays the trumpet – he passed the Gr 6 Trinity exam last year and enjoys playing in church.  We played  the prelude and postlude together."
 
This is what her pastor wrote to her:

"Good evening Carolina, thanks for inspired and inspiring music and accompaniment this morning. The congregation sang with gusto!"
 ​
Isn't that great to have such appreciative pastors or priests?

It feels very rewarding.

You want to keep extending your gratitude to other people around you.

​You also want to make an even better job next time.

​​And so the cycle of gratitude continues.

Hold on to these people. They are very precious.

(​Ignore the toxic trouble-makers. It's not for them that you dedicate your best work. It's for that woman in white coat who can't seem to hide the smile off her face looking up while you demonstrate a metal principal stop in the organ facade.)

Have you seen a member of the congregation come up to the organist and complain about her playing? I think this would work. This could work because this member only wants what's best for the organist and the congregation. And he knows what it takes to play the organ, right?

"Well, Maggie, I know how strongly you feel about using articulate legato in pre-1800 hymns but this time it was a bit too choppy. However, I think you did a marvelous job in applying pedal preparation in the communion hymn. Oh and by the way, I really enjoyed your postlude improvisation. Don't think I didn't notice all those clever transpositions of the Octatonic mode."