Vidas: Hi guys, this is Vidas.
Ausra: And Ausra.
V: Let’s start Episode 289 of Secrets of Organ Playing podcast. This question was sent by Osei. And he wants to become a great organist and a composer, but he struggles with fingering. That’s sort of a short question that he sent.
A: But I find it very controversial, don’t you?
V: Yes. If you want to become a great composer and organist, I think your challenges should be bigger than fingering.
A: I think so, too. Because if you are still struggling with fingering, it means that you are at the very beginning level--don’t you think so?
V: Uh-huh, yes. I read it like, if he solved the fingering problem, then he would become a great organist and a composer. Which is obviously...not enough.
A: Yes, because I think fingering is only one small part of performance.
V: Mhm. What about pedaling, right?
A: True. True, and all other things, you know; and if you want to become a composer, you need to know theory very well, too. To be able to analyze pieces.
V: Let’s talk a little bit about fingering, right?
A: Mhm, mhm.
V: How to solve this fingering problem, if he doesn’t use our fingering and pedaling scores.
A: Well, when making your own fingering, you need to know what piece you are working on, and the style it is written in--if it’s a Baroque piece, or if it’s a Romantic piece, or if it’s a modern piece. And you finger it accordingly. And we have talked about those basic principles of fingering many times already.
V: Mhm. And since Osei wasn’t listening, we can repeat that again, right? So, let’s say, for Baroque fingering, what you must avoid is playing with finger substitutions, glissandos, things like that. Avoid using thumb whenever possible, right? If it’s maybe…
A: On the black keys--on the upper keys.
V: Yes. If it’s a chromatic music, especially from the 18th century, then avoiding the thumb is not really possible most of the time. I guess using those 3 main fingers--2, 3, and 4--are very important in early music, right? In both hands. What about, let’s say, modern music, or legato style music?
A: Well, you can use finger substitution, and glissandos…
V: But not always, right?
A: Not always. It depends on what the articulation needs. If you have to play legato, then yes--you will use all those techniques.
V: If you play frequently scales and arpeggios, you can figure out most of the modern fingering, too, without any glissandos and substitutions.
A: True, true.
V: But substitutions and glissandos come in handy when you are playing more than one voice in one hand.
A: And that very often happens in the 19th century and later music.
V: Right. Is it ok to use the same finger in some of the middle voices, when it’s not possible to play legato?
A: Well, yes--you have to do that quite often.
V: Mhm. Basically you lift up a little bit; and since the audience will still hear the upper voice and the bottom voice, it’s not a big deal.
A: Well, actually, sometimes it’s even possible to connect--to play legato--2 notes with your thumb.
V: Ah yes. Thumb glissandos, yes.
A: That’s right.
V: So that’s basically the main principles of playing with the modern music with efficient fingering, right? What about his dream of becoming a great organist and a composer? Can we help him a little bit? What would be the first step?
A: Well, of course to practice a lot.
V: Sit down on the organ bench as often as he can, maybe every day, right?
A: Sure. If you want to become a great organist, you have to practice every day.
V: How long--for how long?
A: Well, at least 2, or even 3 or 4 hours.
V: Let’s say 4 hours. For a great organist, you have to practice for 4 hours. 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon. With breaks, of course; don’t hurt yourself. Don’t hurt your back. And you have to walk around, drink a glass of water, and stretch every 30 min or so. But since Osei has a lofty goal to become a great organist and a composer, I think pushing yourself a little bit more and playing 4 hours a day is doable.
A: Yes; and about becoming a composer, too, I think it’s important to understand that composition is probably the highest level of all musical creativity. I would say that improvisation might be a little bit higher…
V: Higher, yes, I was going for that. Why higher, Ausra?
A: Because then you are composing right on the spot.
V: Oh, thank you. You’re sort of developing further the great idea…
A: But so, you know, to become a composer, you need to understand music theory, music harmony, musical analysis very well, too; you need to have...to know different musical styles; you have to know a little bit of musical history, too. And then, after studying other composers’ styles, other musical styles, you need to develop your own style.
V: Mhm. Does it come naturally or do you have to force yourself?
A: Well...I think both ways. For some it might come naturally, but for some I think…
V: Do you think Bach...Let’s talk about Bach. Do you think when he was creating music in the 18th century, would he think, “Oh, how can I become original?”
A: Well, I think each great composer started by studying other composers’ works.
V: Copying them!
A: Yes, copying them. Like Bach, for example, when he lived with his brother, at night in secret he would write pieces by Johann Pachelbel.
V: Right. And at first his compositions were similar to Pachelbel’s.
A: Sure. And then, remember that story when he went on foot throughout Germany to Lübeck listen to Buxtehude and to Reincken in Hamburg. So obviously he was learning from them as well.
V: Mhm. And when he was living in those parts, he learned from them, in Nuremberg.
A: True. And since you can find all those Italian and French influences in his music (and obviously German influence--various German influences, because Pachelbel lived in once part of Germany where music was so much different from, let’s say, Northern Germany), so he studied all those influences, and you can find all of them in his music. Of course, he sort of remade them: reworked them, recycled them, and used them in his own unique way. And of course, you also need to mention that he knew stile antico very well.
V: Which is Renaissance style.
A: Which is Renaissance, so obviously he knew works, probably, by such great masters as Palestrina.
V: Mhm.
A: And di Lasso.
V: And let’s say, Frescobaldi.
A: True, true.
V: Mhm. Yes. You know, you mentioned a great idea, that he combined several ideas into one style--German, Italian, French--and made it his own, this combination that we know as a mature Bach style. As a mature Baroque style, even, right? So, a person like Osei could first copy some music of his favorite composers, study them, get curious about them, analyze them, and maybe create something really similar that these composers did at first. But once he gets better at that--once it becomes boring--he could combine a few elements into one piece, a few stylistic elements into one composition. That’s how we become original, right? Not copying one, but stealing from many composers.
A: That’s right. And since Bach lived in the 18th century, and we live in the 21st century, we have much more things to study from, because the music history is already much richer and longer compared to the 18th century.
V: Uh-huh, so we have so much material that the old masters didn’t have before.
A: That’s right.
V: That’s great. And this is such a lofty goal, right? To become a great composer and organist? Do you think that Osei could start composing right away, even if he doesn’t know so much about organ history or music theory, harmony, other composers’ stylistic elements? Could he do that today?
A: Well, I wouldn’t do that, if I would be him.
V: Why?
A: Well...Would you?
V: It’s not forbidden to start composing, right? It wouldn’t be great; and he has to, so to say, fail a lot at first, right? And a little bit later, he will find out a few breakthroughs. And that’s okay, right? You have to start small. That’s what I would do.
A: Well, you know, the scary thing for me is that there are many many young people nowadays who imagine that they are great composers already.
V: Mhm.
A: But they cannot themselves either play nor understand music. And I don’t know how they compose. Probably they are just using digital software.
V: Mhm.
A: To help them to do it. And I wouldn’t want to play a piece written by such a composer.
V: Mhm.
A: Because in order for me to take a composition of somebody and to play it, I need to respect that composer.
V: Mhm. That’s a great idea, because we can compare composing to writing. And there are so many writers who create novels, and a lot of novels are not good. Simply bad writing. So the first rule in writing, probably, is “Write a book you want to read yourself.” Right? If you are not reading that book yourself, if you wouldn’t recommend it to anybody else, that kind of style, then it’s not a good book. So with composition, probably, it’s the same. You have to compose music you want to play yourself.
A: True. And in order to do that, you need to be able to play the instrument.
V: Mhm.
A: And if you are writing for organ, you need to know about it.
V: Mhm. So, becoming a great organist and composer--actually, it’s connected, right? It’s two sides of one coin. You cannot become a great organist if you’re not actually creating; and you can’t create well if you’re not playing the instrument, if you’re not, basically, familiar with the vast variety of organ repertoire which came before. Right? So tell, Ausra, your final advice to Osei?
A: Well, so just you know, keep going, and keep motivating yourself.
V: Mhm.
A: And have a little goal for every day…
V: Mhm.
A: ...Knowing that it will finally lead you to becoming a great organist and composer.
V: And my advice would be, probably, start small and have the goal of becoming a bad composer first. Right? Create bad music first, but lots of it; and then little by little, if you create lots, maybe a thousand compositions that are bad, maybe one or two will be good, you know? And then in 20 years, you’ll become a great composer.
A: Well, yes, for some composers it was enough to make one excellent piece that they would be remembered for forever.
V: Right. So it’s a long life, and hopefully you can create something new every day. And it doesn’t have to be perfect, right? Because perfection is the killer of creativity. Thank you guys, this was Vidas.
A: And Ausra.
V: Please send us more of your questions; we love helping you grow. And remember, when you practice…
A: Miracles happen.
Ausra: And Ausra.
V: Let’s start Episode 289 of Secrets of Organ Playing podcast. This question was sent by Osei. And he wants to become a great organist and a composer, but he struggles with fingering. That’s sort of a short question that he sent.
A: But I find it very controversial, don’t you?
V: Yes. If you want to become a great composer and organist, I think your challenges should be bigger than fingering.
A: I think so, too. Because if you are still struggling with fingering, it means that you are at the very beginning level--don’t you think so?
V: Uh-huh, yes. I read it like, if he solved the fingering problem, then he would become a great organist and a composer. Which is obviously...not enough.
A: Yes, because I think fingering is only one small part of performance.
V: Mhm. What about pedaling, right?
A: True. True, and all other things, you know; and if you want to become a composer, you need to know theory very well, too. To be able to analyze pieces.
V: Let’s talk a little bit about fingering, right?
A: Mhm, mhm.
V: How to solve this fingering problem, if he doesn’t use our fingering and pedaling scores.
A: Well, when making your own fingering, you need to know what piece you are working on, and the style it is written in--if it’s a Baroque piece, or if it’s a Romantic piece, or if it’s a modern piece. And you finger it accordingly. And we have talked about those basic principles of fingering many times already.
V: Mhm. And since Osei wasn’t listening, we can repeat that again, right? So, let’s say, for Baroque fingering, what you must avoid is playing with finger substitutions, glissandos, things like that. Avoid using thumb whenever possible, right? If it’s maybe…
A: On the black keys--on the upper keys.
V: Yes. If it’s a chromatic music, especially from the 18th century, then avoiding the thumb is not really possible most of the time. I guess using those 3 main fingers--2, 3, and 4--are very important in early music, right? In both hands. What about, let’s say, modern music, or legato style music?
A: Well, you can use finger substitution, and glissandos…
V: But not always, right?
A: Not always. It depends on what the articulation needs. If you have to play legato, then yes--you will use all those techniques.
V: If you play frequently scales and arpeggios, you can figure out most of the modern fingering, too, without any glissandos and substitutions.
A: True, true.
V: But substitutions and glissandos come in handy when you are playing more than one voice in one hand.
A: And that very often happens in the 19th century and later music.
V: Right. Is it ok to use the same finger in some of the middle voices, when it’s not possible to play legato?
A: Well, yes--you have to do that quite often.
V: Mhm. Basically you lift up a little bit; and since the audience will still hear the upper voice and the bottom voice, it’s not a big deal.
A: Well, actually, sometimes it’s even possible to connect--to play legato--2 notes with your thumb.
V: Ah yes. Thumb glissandos, yes.
A: That’s right.
V: So that’s basically the main principles of playing with the modern music with efficient fingering, right? What about his dream of becoming a great organist and a composer? Can we help him a little bit? What would be the first step?
A: Well, of course to practice a lot.
V: Sit down on the organ bench as often as he can, maybe every day, right?
A: Sure. If you want to become a great organist, you have to practice every day.
V: How long--for how long?
A: Well, at least 2, or even 3 or 4 hours.
V: Let’s say 4 hours. For a great organist, you have to practice for 4 hours. 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon. With breaks, of course; don’t hurt yourself. Don’t hurt your back. And you have to walk around, drink a glass of water, and stretch every 30 min or so. But since Osei has a lofty goal to become a great organist and a composer, I think pushing yourself a little bit more and playing 4 hours a day is doable.
A: Yes; and about becoming a composer, too, I think it’s important to understand that composition is probably the highest level of all musical creativity. I would say that improvisation might be a little bit higher…
V: Higher, yes, I was going for that. Why higher, Ausra?
A: Because then you are composing right on the spot.
V: Oh, thank you. You’re sort of developing further the great idea…
A: But so, you know, to become a composer, you need to understand music theory, music harmony, musical analysis very well, too; you need to have...to know different musical styles; you have to know a little bit of musical history, too. And then, after studying other composers’ styles, other musical styles, you need to develop your own style.
V: Mhm. Does it come naturally or do you have to force yourself?
A: Well...I think both ways. For some it might come naturally, but for some I think…
V: Do you think Bach...Let’s talk about Bach. Do you think when he was creating music in the 18th century, would he think, “Oh, how can I become original?”
A: Well, I think each great composer started by studying other composers’ works.
V: Copying them!
A: Yes, copying them. Like Bach, for example, when he lived with his brother, at night in secret he would write pieces by Johann Pachelbel.
V: Right. And at first his compositions were similar to Pachelbel’s.
A: Sure. And then, remember that story when he went on foot throughout Germany to Lübeck listen to Buxtehude and to Reincken in Hamburg. So obviously he was learning from them as well.
V: Mhm. And when he was living in those parts, he learned from them, in Nuremberg.
A: True. And since you can find all those Italian and French influences in his music (and obviously German influence--various German influences, because Pachelbel lived in once part of Germany where music was so much different from, let’s say, Northern Germany), so he studied all those influences, and you can find all of them in his music. Of course, he sort of remade them: reworked them, recycled them, and used them in his own unique way. And of course, you also need to mention that he knew stile antico very well.
V: Which is Renaissance style.
A: Which is Renaissance, so obviously he knew works, probably, by such great masters as Palestrina.
V: Mhm.
A: And di Lasso.
V: And let’s say, Frescobaldi.
A: True, true.
V: Mhm. Yes. You know, you mentioned a great idea, that he combined several ideas into one style--German, Italian, French--and made it his own, this combination that we know as a mature Bach style. As a mature Baroque style, even, right? So, a person like Osei could first copy some music of his favorite composers, study them, get curious about them, analyze them, and maybe create something really similar that these composers did at first. But once he gets better at that--once it becomes boring--he could combine a few elements into one piece, a few stylistic elements into one composition. That’s how we become original, right? Not copying one, but stealing from many composers.
A: That’s right. And since Bach lived in the 18th century, and we live in the 21st century, we have much more things to study from, because the music history is already much richer and longer compared to the 18th century.
V: Uh-huh, so we have so much material that the old masters didn’t have before.
A: That’s right.
V: That’s great. And this is such a lofty goal, right? To become a great composer and organist? Do you think that Osei could start composing right away, even if he doesn’t know so much about organ history or music theory, harmony, other composers’ stylistic elements? Could he do that today?
A: Well, I wouldn’t do that, if I would be him.
V: Why?
A: Well...Would you?
V: It’s not forbidden to start composing, right? It wouldn’t be great; and he has to, so to say, fail a lot at first, right? And a little bit later, he will find out a few breakthroughs. And that’s okay, right? You have to start small. That’s what I would do.
A: Well, you know, the scary thing for me is that there are many many young people nowadays who imagine that they are great composers already.
V: Mhm.
A: But they cannot themselves either play nor understand music. And I don’t know how they compose. Probably they are just using digital software.
V: Mhm.
A: To help them to do it. And I wouldn’t want to play a piece written by such a composer.
V: Mhm.
A: Because in order for me to take a composition of somebody and to play it, I need to respect that composer.
V: Mhm. That’s a great idea, because we can compare composing to writing. And there are so many writers who create novels, and a lot of novels are not good. Simply bad writing. So the first rule in writing, probably, is “Write a book you want to read yourself.” Right? If you are not reading that book yourself, if you wouldn’t recommend it to anybody else, that kind of style, then it’s not a good book. So with composition, probably, it’s the same. You have to compose music you want to play yourself.
A: True. And in order to do that, you need to be able to play the instrument.
V: Mhm.
A: And if you are writing for organ, you need to know about it.
V: Mhm. So, becoming a great organist and composer--actually, it’s connected, right? It’s two sides of one coin. You cannot become a great organist if you’re not actually creating; and you can’t create well if you’re not playing the instrument, if you’re not, basically, familiar with the vast variety of organ repertoire which came before. Right? So tell, Ausra, your final advice to Osei?
A: Well, so just you know, keep going, and keep motivating yourself.
V: Mhm.
A: And have a little goal for every day…
V: Mhm.
A: ...Knowing that it will finally lead you to becoming a great organist and composer.
V: And my advice would be, probably, start small and have the goal of becoming a bad composer first. Right? Create bad music first, but lots of it; and then little by little, if you create lots, maybe a thousand compositions that are bad, maybe one or two will be good, you know? And then in 20 years, you’ll become a great composer.
A: Well, yes, for some composers it was enough to make one excellent piece that they would be remembered for forever.
V: Right. So it’s a long life, and hopefully you can create something new every day. And it doesn’t have to be perfect, right? Because perfection is the killer of creativity. Thank you guys, this was Vidas.
A: And Ausra.
V: Please send us more of your questions; we love helping you grow. And remember, when you practice…
A: Miracles happen.
This blog/podcast is supported by Total Organist - the most comprehensive organ training program online. It has hundreds of courses, coaching and practice materials for every area of organ playing, thousands of instructional videos and PDF's. You will NOT find more value anywhere else online...
Total Organist helps you to master any piece, perfect your technique, develop your sight-reading skills, and improvise or compose your own music and much much more... Sign up and begin your training today. And of course, you will get the 1st month free too. You can cancel anytime.
Join 80+ other Total Organist students here
Total Organist helps you to master any piece, perfect your technique, develop your sight-reading skills, and improvise or compose your own music and much much more... Sign up and begin your training today. And of course, you will get the 1st month free too. You can cancel anytime.
Join 80+ other Total Organist students here
RSS Feed